Sarah
Okay, so welcome everyone to our new episode of STEMterviews. Today, we have with us Sally Hurst from Macquarie University in Sydney. And she’s a master’s student in archaeology and to introduce yourself, would you just talk about your project and what you’re actually working on right now.

Sally
Yeah, no worries. So thank you for having me. First off, it’s been all going to be a pleasure. Yeah, so I am a master’s student at Macquarie University in Sydney. My undergraduate was in Egyptian archaeology and palaeontology. So the study of fossils and dinosaurs and things. And now my master’s project is going to be an attempt to combine a few of those things. Everyone was kind of like, because I was doing this double degree, everyone was always like, you have to pick one or the other eventually. And I was absolutely like, no, I love dinosaurs. I love archaeology, we’re just, we’re gonna work something out.

So my master’s research programme, or project at the moment, it’s still kind of in early stages, but the plan is to do a survey for the Australian community and ask people about what they would do if they found a fossil and what they would do if they found an archaeological artefact; if it’s the same response, if it’s different, and just kind of see, what people’s perceptions to our cultural and natural heritage is.

And second part of that is going to be providing sort of a series of science communication media pieces, so a blog, a poster, a video, kind of like an Instagram post infographic, and to show people these different things. And then get them to answer a few more questions in the survey. So was there one particular science communication medium, which they preferred, which they engaged with more? Did they find one was more informative, and that kind of thing, because a lot of the time, like, we know all these, you know, diverse things of science, communication is good, but we don’t have a lot of actual studies or data on how people engage with this. So that’s kind of a secondary part of the thesis. And to create those science communication pieces, it’s going to be kind of stitching together what the legislation is in different states of Australia. Are there any legal requirements, if you find a fossil or archaeological artefact? I suddenly didn’t know. And I did a degree in both of these things. And that was kind of the other thing. I’m like, I feel like, I should know this. And I don’t and there’s no way that the general public who potentially the people finding this important stuff are going to know that either. So yeah, so hopefully, for that part, I’ll be consulting with a bunch of heritage archaeologist, palaeontologist experts to kind of get that legislation and make sure I’m getting the right message across. So it’s a very multifaceted project. But I’m really excited to get started.

Sarah
Yeah, there’s so much, there’s so many things coming together. So my burning question, as always, is, why is this research important? Why is it important that people know what to do with a fossil or an artefact?

Sally
I mean, for me, it seems really obvious. I don’t know. Like, I’ve always had kind of an innate natural curiosity that if you find something like I grew up on a farm, so if you found something in the paddock, you’d always go, “Oh my God, what is this”? Is it something cool? It’s probably just a rock. But I want to know, and I think a lot of people share this curiosity. And especially for things like our archaeological and our paleontological heritage, this could be important, it’s a very finite resource that we may only have one of a kind of the specimen, so it is important to protect them. And if no one knows what the legislation is, or who to contact, if they found a fossil or an artefact or what to do, then it might just be thrown in a cupboard or destroyed or buried. And so you know, ideally, someone at a museum or someone who knows their stuff would be shown and could be like, Oh, we’ve got 10,000 of these brachiopod shells you can do you can kill them.

Sarah
We don’t need them. Put it into the collection.

Sally
Exactly. But if it is something super important that we’ve never seen before, then if people don’t tell us, then how are we ever going to find these new discoveries? So it’s kind of community engagement and getting the community who are finding this stuff involved with the scientific process?

Sarah
Okay, so what should someone do when they find a fossil? Just to be clear, no? Because we do want to tell people what they actually should do.

Sally
Yeah, so the actual laws if you do find something, it’s going to depend where you are. So for example, if you’re in a national park, usually the rule is just leave it there. You don’t take anything out of the national park, but you can always take photos of it.

If it’s on your property, again, laws differ where you are. But you can always take photos, you can go and show it to someone generally in a museum. And even if that particular person on the desk doesn’t know what it is, they’ll probably know someone who does.

Yeah, so for me, I work at the Australian Museum and we have the “Ask an Expert” function. So a lot of people if they find anything on their property or in their backyard or in a national park, they can take photos of it, or they can bring it in and sort of tell (or) ask these experts and they will kind of say, “Okay, you’ve got a fossil, let’s go and talk to the palaeontology department” or “let’s go talk to the archaeology department and they can identify what it is”. And if there’s any other steps, do they want to study it? Do they, like, “we’ve got too many of these, you can keep it”. Usually museums are the good place to go for this kind of information.

Sarah
Yeah nice, obviously. So have you ever found anything in your backyard? Because you said you grew up on a farm?

Sally
Yeah, unfortunately, where we are, (it is) not great for archaeology, or palaeontology. No, there’s not really anything near where I grew up. The way I got into palaeontology was my mum. So she’s the one who runs our farm, our little beef cattle farm. And she would used to go to the cattle sales on the weekend, and she just needed to keep my sister and I occupied. So she bought a big bag of dinosaurs. And she was like, go sit under a tree. Well, I’m gonna go pay attention to the cattle and stuff. And so that was kind of how my sister and I both really got into dinosaurs and stuff. And then yeah, kind of carried on years later.

Sarah
Okay. And is your sister also still into dinosaurs? Or is it just you?

Sally
It’s just me. Now she’s gone in very different directions. So she has gone into agribusiness. So very much economics, agricultural, farming kind of business stuff, but very different parts. I don’t know what she does. She doesn’t know a whole lot of what I do. But she’s also an incredible…

Sarah
Most scientists’ lives, I guess.

Sally
Absolutely yeah. But she’s also an amazing photographer. So some of the pictures you see behind me, these are hers. So we try and do a lot of family trips together; her, my mum and I. So this was when we went to South Africa a few years ago, and she was kind of our resident photographer, which is pretty special.

Sarah
Nice, awesome. Okay, so but let’s go back to the dinosaur because that’s what we want to talk about. So what do you find so fascinating about this, about the whole fossils? And are you just interested in the animal of the dinosaur, or what is it that fascinates you?

Sally
Kind of the whole process. I mean, it was definitely dinosaurs that got me in, just the fact that once upon a time there were these just immense animals wandering around and how they interacted with the environment. And just, when you’ve got something that massive, how did it move? How did it eat? What did it eat? All these kinds of questions I find so interesting. But also the entire process of palaeontology. For me, it’s very much like CSI, like, it’s an investigation. You’re a bit of a detective. I mean, at the museum, we do a lot of talks on this. So we’ll present kids with some facts about fossils, or how we might, we’ve got this skeleton, what can we tell about it? Or we’ve got some footprints, what clues can we get from this? And that’s really how palaeontology is. You’ve got such a small amount of little clues about this past animal or tree or life form, or even climate and stuff. And so it’s amazing that you know, this is 100 million years old, and yet we can tell what it ate, where it lived, what the climate was, how big it was, how much it weighed, all this stuff. So there’s just so many questions that need answering, and I’m always very excited to try and answer them.

Sarah
Okay, as fascinating as I always find it. But to me the question is, why do we need to know this? Why do we need to know how some extinct animals lived 100 million years ago? Why is that important right now?

Sally
I mean, this is the thing for me. I just love dinosaurs. I think they’re incredible. But at the same time, a lot of work that palaeontologists do can actually feed back into problems that we’re facing now. So, a big topic that dinosaur palaeontologists look at is extinctions. Was it the massive meteorite that caused something to go extinct? Was it change in climates, rising sea levels, all these things? Which except for the meteorite, hopefully, all these things that we’re still facing now, they kind of look at these species and or environments to kind of go, “Okay, this was sort of a trigger, or this was a clue indicating that this was going to happen next, and if we can find these similar triggers or similar clues in our current environments, then that can give us a lot more information on what might come next, and how we deal with these problems in the future”.

Sarah
Okay, so what is the general theory in the field? Why are dinosaurs extinct? I know there’s different theories and models. So what’s the general idea of scientists?

Sally
So the one that I’ve definitely heard most is (that) the meteorite did cause it. So 65-66 million years ago, this massive meteorite came from outer space and hit the Earth. It was like 15 kilometres across. Yeah, it caused a crater in the Gulf of Mexico. So we kind of know where the location is. And that was kind of what set off events around the world. So a lot of people think, oh, it was the volcanoes, it was the tsunamis, earthquakes, fires. It was probably all of those things, kind of, at the same time. But it was mainly that meteorite impact which triggered a lot of other things. It is kind of hard to date a lot of those events. So there were some massive volcanic eruptions in the Deccan traps around India. And so a lot of people think that, okay, the meteorite triggered these eruptions, but actually, that may have been 700,000 to a million years apart. So it’s kind of the same time, but also there’s a lot. Extinctions are, obviously, big events. And so there’s always a lot of debate about what actually happened.

Sarah
Yeah. Okay, so the meteorite came to earth. And then what happened? Why did the dinosaurs go extinct? What’s the idea?
Sally
So from the meteorite, there were shockwaves, there was a lot of dust and carbon going into that atmosphere. And there was so much debris from the earthquakes, potential volcanic eruptions, smoke, that it kind of blocked out the sun for a year. And then, you know, photosynthesis basically stopped. And so all of the plants obviously can’t survive without this sun. And so they die. And suddenly the herbivores die, and then the carnivores die. And a lot of Yeah, a lot of the issue was that dinosaurs were really big that they needed a lot of food to survive on.

Sarah
And oxygen.

Sally
Yeah, and so a lot of the creatures, which were about 25 kilos or less, they were more or less the ones to survive. Yeah.

Sarah
I never knew that. It’s so interesting. It’s so cool.

Sally
Yeah. So it’s always kind of these cascading events, that one thing triggers, and then everything else follows.

Sarah
Yeah, nice. Okay, so what do you think of why are dinosaurs still so famous now? And why are kids so interested in them? I mean, as you said yourself, there’s toys and games at my friend’s place right now. And there’s, like, dinosaur toys all over this place. Why do you think that is? Why do we find these creatures so fascinating, even though we’ve never met them?

Sally
Why I think this is the thing is that while we do still kind of have their ancestors, not the ancestors, the descendants of dinosaurs, so birds are descended from dinosaurs, they don’t really look a lot like what we imagined those massive dinosaurs to be. We have nothing like them on Earth, of that magnitude, of that size, of that biology. And so that’s the thing. There are so many interesting questions about these animals, which we want to know and we want to ask and so because there is this never ending list of questions, kids and adults are always wanting to know the answers to these. So even if we find a new species, then it’s renewed again. And if there’s a new Jurassic Worlds movie, it’s renewed again.

Sarah
Speaking of which, what about the T-Rex? Why do we like T-Rex so much? Why is it the most important one or the most famous one?

Sally
Absolutely. So, Jurassic Park definitely has a lot to answer for with the fame of T rex, and I adore those movies. But as accuracy goes, not amazing for, like, science communication, and getting dinosaurs into the public eye. They were fabulous. But factual facts on dinosaur paleobiology (is) not amazing. Yeah, and so T-Rex…

Sarah
I had the same issue with a recent Netflix series that is called Biohackers. And I just couldn’t watch it because they were using machines in the lab room, like, “this is not how it works, no, no, no”.

Sally
Yeah, no, I definitely understand. And the worst thing with the Jurassic Worlds’ movies at the moment, like, I love the originals, they’ll always be my favourite, but the new ones have introduced these hybrids and stuff. And so in some of the museums where I work, we’ll get kids coming in like, “oh my favourite dinosaur, the Indominus Rex, like, it doesn’t exist”. (It’s) not even a real dinosaur.

But then yeah, so things like T-Rex, which was a real dinosaur, this is the thing like, you imagine that this is something only someone in a movie could make up. But the actual dinosaur was absolutely incredible. So originally T-Rex was so famous because it was the first or one of the first really big meat eating dinosaurs. And so when they found it, they named it the Tyrannosaurus Rex, which means the tyrant lizard king. So kind of like the lion is the king of the jungle, the T rex is the king of the dinosaurs. It was later found out they found a bunch more dinosaurs. And he’s about number eight or nine on the biggest carnivore list. So he’s definitely not number one.

And again, this is something that Jurassic Park has kind of perpetuated that he was the biggest and he was the meanest. And I think in one of the movies, he takes down a Spinosaurus, which is meant to be much bigger. And then, you know, you get palaeontologists going, “Okay, first off, he was 12 metres long, whereas Spinosaurus was 17 metres long, so much bigger. Spinosaurus ate a lot of fish, rather than actual other dinosaurs. And they also lived several million years apart on different continents. So like, they never would have seen each other”.

And I think one of the biggest fallacies is in Jurassic Park, one of the most famous things about T-Rex is that it can’t see you unless you’re moving around. Which just makes no sense. I mean, sure, it’s a plot point in the movie. But yeah, this is the thing. So T-Rex does actually have really good binocular vision. They’re an apex predator, so they kind of need good depth perception to catch their prey, because otherwise they’d just be running into trees all the time. And it just made no sense. And so things like that, which so many people come into museums (with), “oh, I saw it in this movie, it’s absolutely correct”. And I go like, I mean, some of it was okay, like, the general size of the dinosaur was not bad. But then the rest of it, like, not really. But yeah, so the T-Rex is very famous, mainly because of those movies. But unfortunately, that fame has definitely come with some misinformation.

Sarah
So how often do you have these conversations in the museum? Like telling people, “this is not correct, I’m sorry guys. I know you love T rex but…”

Sally
I mean, we basically built one of our, kind of, presentation talks about this point. We were really lucky that the museum did some work with National Geographic. They did a documentary called T-Rex autopsy. And they built this life size model of a dead T-Rex, and fake blood and limbs and x-rays and everything. And it’s gory, and disgusting. And kids will probably love it. But once they finished with the project, they had nothing to do with this giant T-Rex. So they approached the museum and they were like, “do you want it”? So the museum was like, “Hmm, sure, why not”? So we built a presentation.

Sarah
There!!

Sally
Exactly. We built this presentation about T-Rex autopsy, but at the same time, we’d kind of go through the eyes, we’d go through the tiny little arms and kind of break down like, “Okay, what do you know about T-Rex? It’s probably from Jurassic Park. Let’s break it down into what we actually do know”. Yeah. And it was always…people will always like, “Oh, I didn’t know that. That’s so cool”.

Sarah
That’s good. That’s a great way of science communication actually, right?

Sally
Exactly. And the fact like building on something they know how many. It’s not necessarily right (but) it’s definitely something you can connect with.

Sarah
Yeah, that’s good. That’s great. So how did you get into, like, science communication and public outreach? And, or why did you start working in a museum?

Sally
Yeah, so my first, kind of, science communication role was when I was in year 10. So I was probably about 16 years old. In Australia, at school, you do, like, a work experience. You do a week’s work experience. You pick a company that you think, “Oh, it would be fun to work there. Let’s go and see what it’s actually like”. So for mine, I went to the national Dinosaur Museum in Canberra because that’s a thing. And at the end of my week’s work experience, they said if you’re obviously really into this, would you like a job? Would you like to work here?
So I worked there every second weekend or so, all throughout high school and then I had a gap year. So it’s working out pretty solidly all through that. And my favourite part was giving tours around the museum and just kind of the…my favourite thing, whatever science communication I do is that look on someone’s face when they’re just…their face lights up (and they’re like,) “Oh my gosh, that’s so cool”.

Sarah
You can see the connected dots in their brain is like, “Yeah, that is amazing”. Yeah. I love that feeling as well. Yeah.

Sally
Exactly. So I kind of got hooked on that and I wanted to do more. And I then moved to Sydney, and started doing, sort of, volunteering at the Australian Museum. And I had a subject at university, which was pretty pivotal. And it was called engaging the community and science. And it was run by this amazing woman, Joanne Jamie and her husband, Ian, and they had co-founded a company called the National Indigenous Science Education Program. We just call it NISEP.

So, they created this foundation, and the premise was they would go to events, and they’d go to rural schools who didn’t have science facilities, or didn’t have the knowledge or the equipment, that kind of thing. And so we would go there, and we would teach the 12 kids how to do experiments. And then they would teach the 7 students, so they teach the younger ones. So we’re teaching them to be leaders, we were getting everyone excited about science. And so we got students to write programmes for this foundation. And it was just amazing. So I spent a year doing this, working with these guys.

And sort of from that, I realised, this is something I want to do as a career. Like, I love research, I love dinosaurs, but it’s this part of science that I really, really love. And that I want to keep doing. So that was kind of the pivot and then what else?

Yeah, so I got hired at the Australian Museum, as, kind of, audience engagement host, which is kind of a science communicator. And so for most of the jobs that I’ve gone for things like student ambassador at my university as well, a lot of that is kind of centred around, giving kids at the end of their schooling, advice on what university to go to, what degree they should pursue, and very much for me, it’s a huge plug for science. For me, it’s the future. And I just find it so much fun. And I think, again, a lot of people connect like, “Oh, you know, when I was young, I wanted to be Indiana Jones” or “wanted to be [inaudible] Park” and I was like, “you can, that’s a possibility”.

Sarah
So yeah, exactly. What tip would you give anyone or advice to get started in science communication? It doesn’t have to be palaeontologist, but anything really. What is your idea? Any advice?

Sally
I mean for me, volunteering, and doing those work experiences were definitely some of the best decisions. Even as a master’s student, doing this kind of stuff, like, it’s not something I would normally do. I just wanted to try it, and that kind of thing. So yeah, even if you’re a high school student, if you have a local museum, if you know, even stuff like this, it’s probably hard with a lot of things being closed down now. But there’s so many online courses you can do. So I’m doing one at the moment, which is about science communication. And a lot of our, kind of, mini-assignments are peer reviewed. So we’ll upload just a three dot point, “this is an outreach activity I want to do in the future. Here are some supporting information”. And then you swap with someone else who was doing the course. And you can kind of give each other feedback on that.

Sarah
Oh, nice.

Sally
Yeah. And that course is open to anyone. And so a lot of these things don’t matter how young you are. They, kind of, start at a beginner level. And that’s an amazing way to get involved in, just start networking with this community you want to be a part of.

Sarah
Nice, that’s really cool. Yeah, I didn’t know that existed. And I’m still surprised that people are, like, do people still go to museums, what do you think? Is it getting more or less right now? I mean, obviously, right now with a pandemic going on it’s tricky. But in general, are people still involved or, like, interested in going to museums?

Sally
I don’t really think so. I think it also depends on the museum. It depends, is their social media and science communication, kind of platform, really good? Are they enticing people? Do they have programmes which engage with people? Definitely, from my experience with the Australian Museum, we saw that museum closed for about 18 months for renovations. And then it opened just as we were coming out of lockdown. And so we had no international visitors, it was free entry. And we had so many visitors, so many people, obviously part of it was like, “Oh my gosh, we’re free out of lockdown”. We need something for the kids to do. So they came to the museum. But at the same time that was amazing. It was, a lot of these crowds, which maybe couldn’t afford to come to the museum previously, now that (it) was free, could come and engage and go, “Oh my gosh, I didn’t realise this was here. This is amazing”. And so I think from that we’ve got a lot more, kind of, repeat visitors who see the changing exhibitions and see my team. We’re, kind of, on the floor trying to engage with a lot of kids and adults. And so they see that there is this amazing resource of people and exhibitions to come and visit. And so I think (it) depends on the museum. But I’m obviously very biased in this. But yes, I definitely think museums are still a very engaging point.

Sarah
That’s so cool. It’s so important to get people involved, to get especially kids involved in, like, science is not just standing in the lab. Now there’s much more.

Sally
Absolutely, yeah.

Sarah
So but one question I have for myself, because you keep saying, “Oh, we have the Australian Museum for dinosaurs and all of this. I don’t think we have this in Europe, or like, it’s, I feel like dinosaurs are not that big in Europe, or like, there’s no big museums. Are there, like, hotspots for dinosaur’s fossils? Or how come you have, you’re like, so involved in this in the down under?

Sally
I mean, it’s weird in Australia because, like, so the dinosaur museum is very, very small. And it’s not actually anywhere near a fossil site. It’s a privately owned business, I don’t really know why it’s in Canberra of all places. But we have some amazing fossils. And the gallery is like, it’s quite small, but it’s amazing. And if you go on a tour with one of the guides, they’re usually very overqualified palaeontologists who are doing a masters or a PhD at the same time (and) need a fun job on the side.

But the Australian Museum as well, it’s a larger natural history museum, which has a dinosaur gallery. I’m obviously just very into the dinosaurs. And I think that’s probably similar with some museums in Europe, you probably have natural history museums with big gem collections. And a dinosaur gallery, but it may not be the focus. But there are definitely hotspots of where you find dinosaurs and other fossils. So, (in) a lot of the time of fossilisation, you need rapid burial events. So things like that.

Sarah
[inaudible]

Sally
Yeah. So like a landslide, a sandstorm, floods, that kind of thing, which the dinosaurs crossing the river or something had to get covered really quickly. Even things like swamps and lakes, which were quite still. And so if a dinosaur died, fell to the bottom and then gets covered with mud relatively quickly or just it’s very still. And so those are the, kind of, …poor dinosaur. But really good for us. Then we can find them.

But yeah, those are the kind of hotspots that you tend to find. So a lot in China actually had a lot of, kind of, marshes, which (grow in) very low oxygen environments, which was really amazing for fossilisation. So, China’s amazing and Mongolia as well, because this is where we get a lot of dinosaur fossils, which have the feathers preserved on some dinosaurs. And so it’s those kinds of hotspots where you get incredible fossils. We have a few of these kinds of hotspots in Australia, but they’re usually in the middle of outback Queensland. They’re very hard to get to. It’s pretty fragmentary material. And so places like North America are much luckier. So Australia, I think, has about or around 28 dinosaur species, whereas places like North America has several 100 dinosaur species.

Sarah
Oh, wow!

Sally
That’s partly due to (because) they have a much large population. So there’s more people to go find those fossils. But also, they just had better conditions for those fossils to become fossils.

Sarah
Yeah, makes sense. Okay. Wow, I did know. That’s so cool, nice. Okay, this has been super interesting. Thank you so much Sally for joining us.

Sally
Yeah, no worries.

Sarah
Now, at the end, we always have, like, a few random questions that don’t have too much to do with your research or science. Can I just ask them?

Sally
Yeah, of course.

Sarah
Okay, so the first one is, what was your favourite subject at school?

Sally
Oh, ancient history was definitely my favourite. I remember, I desperately wanted to do Earth and environmental science. But I came from a town, which didn’t have many people, and my school didn’t have many people. So we didn’t actually have enough people to run that class. So I ended up doing, like, just a generic science class. At that stage, I didn’t know that dinosaurs was where I wanted to, kind of, go into. So I was like, “Oh, biology, I don’t need that”. But when I got to university, I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I should have been doing this so much earlier”. But I was originally on a very different career path. And then halfway through my gap year, I was like, “I actually don’t want to do that at all. What do I actually enjoy doing”? Which were dinosaurs and ancient Egyptian. So I found somewhere where I could study those.

Sarah
Yeah. Which kind of leads us to our second question. What are you truly passionate about?

Sally
I mean, apart from those two, I like the ocean. For me (it) has become sort of a massive passion for me. When I was on my gap year in 2016, I became a scuba diver. Yeah, so it’s when I was going to the first Africa trip that I was talking about with my sister, we went over there. And on one of the coasts, it was very well known for having amazing diving. And so I was like, “Oh, well, I don’t know if I’m ever going to come back here. I may as well become a diver and do some dives”. Since then (it) has been a few years and I’ve also started to freedive, which is just, you know, holding your breath and seeing how long you can go. And it’s just been one of the best things I’ve ever done. So whenever I go overseas, or even in Australia now, I’m like, “okay, where’s an ocean”? “What big animals can I go diving with”? So I went to Tonga a few years ago.

Sarah
Sounds like me. Where’s the ocean? Where’s the beach?

Sally
Definitely. It’s like, what’s in the beach? What’s in the water? So a few years ago, I got to go to Tonga and swim with humpback whales.

Sarah
Oh, wow!!

Sally
Even last week. So I’m down at Jervis Bay in Australia at the moment and we have the whale migration going up the coast at the moment. So last weekend, my sister and I, we went freediving and we got to see some humpback whales in the water again. So it was incredible. So anything: whales, sharks, dolphins, rays. I love it all. I want to swim with all of them.

Sarah
Oh my god. Wow, that’s so brave as well.

Sally
They’re friendly sharks. Nevermind.

Sarah
Okay, so that yeah, that kind of also answers our next question. What do you do in your free time? So I guess it’s, yeah, diving and looking for dinosaurs and enjoying those?

Sally
Yeah, definitely. Things like drawing as well. And yeah, just extra research on the side. I love being busy. I’m very bad at just sitting still.

Sarah
Join the club.

Sally
Exactly. So you know at the moment, yes, I’m doing my masters. But I’m also working at the Australian Museum. I’ve got my student ambassador job. I’m doing an online course. I’m trying to draw. I’m visiting my mom and yeah, whatever I can. I’m trying to say yes to everything at the moment.

Sarah
Yeah, I know how that feels. And when you have some time, in your free time, do you also watch movies? And what is your favourite movie, including archaeology or dinosaurs?

Sally
Oh, okay, overall. Well, I know. Overall, favourite movie has got to be Lord of the Rings. I’m a huge Tolkien fan. And otherwise, Indiana Jones is a classic. Again, it’s the same thing with Jurassic Park. Like I love the movies. I’d love the characters, but as for actual accuracy, no, not at all. But you know, it’s Harrison Ford, and you’ve just got to love him. So yes, those are definitely my favourites. And then yeah, anything kind of fantasy so Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, all of those definite favourites. Yeah.

Sarah
Nice. Okay, and our last question is, What is your favourite dinosaur?

Sally
Well, I do love this question because it’s messy. So, my favourite dinosaur is a dinosaur called the Dracorex Hogwartsia

Sarah
Hogwarts? I heard Hogwarts.

Sally
Yeah. It translates to the “Dragon King of Hogwarts” because the skull of this dinosaur looks like a dragon skull. It’s very spiky. It looks amazing. But unfortunately, it’s come out in the literature in the last few years that people think this might be a juvenile of another dinosaur. So it kind of gets submerged into this other species, which doesn’t have a cool name. It’s the Pachycephalosaurus. So it’s one of those dinosaurs, which have like domed heads and they headbutt each other. So it may not exist as a species anymore. It may just be a growth stage of another species. But still, I don’t think you can beat a name like Dracorex Hogwartsia. So that’s still my favourite. I’m holding out for it.

Sarah
Love it, that’s amazing. Okay Sally, that was amazing. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for this amazing conversation. I learned so much, truly. I didn’t know half of what you told me.

Sally
Well, hopefully it made sense.

Sarah
Yes, it did. Okay. Thank you.

Sally
Thank you.

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